Bryan's Running Blog

Bryan, you've got great speed. I think endurance is much easier to obtain than speed. Just don't hurt yourself.

Bryan - the miles look a little odd for this workout - did you do a warm-up and a cooldown?

Overall the training for this week looks good as far as speed and getting out every day is concerned. However, you need more mileage to do well on any distance beyond 1 mile. Try the "minimum-6" approach - the day does not end until you've at least run 6 miles. If it is 11 pm and you are at 3 miles for the day, you go out for 24 minutes and jog the remaining three before going to bed. With a baby you might need to do that anyway just to put him/her to sleep.

I like that minimum-6 approach. I'll try it. Obviously I need to work on this myself.

Sasha, Bryan set a goal to break a 5 minute mile so for the short-term, I believe that has been his focus. Of course, it's easier to do with more mileage under your belt.

My mileage and speed are somewhat estimates on this one. I didn't do a warm-up or cool-down (actually I ran the slow 3 minutes first and ended with the fast 3 minutes at my house and then just walked around for 5 minutes). I figure 4 reps of 3 minutes at 5:30 pace + 4 reps of 3 minutes at 8:00 pace = 3.7 miles.

Yes, I know I need to run more miles for my marathon training. It just takes so much time! My goal for this year is the sub-5 minute mile, and I'm gradually running a little farther on weekends.

Well, that's close to the right pace. You could ease up slighly and still break 5 minutes. Just 1/5th to go. I'm going to start incorporating some speedwork on Wednesdays.

About a month ago I started doing 5 reps of a fifth mile. The next week I did two fifths, then 3, this week 4. Next week I will try the entire mile!

Good luck. I tried a fast mile the other day and could only hold the 5 minute pace for a quarter. It's amazing how quick that feels now.

Bryan,

Was this run easy for you? That's pretty close to race pace to qualify for Boston. You appear to be much more comfortable at higher speeds (at least compared to me). All that speed work is probably paying off.

It wasn't too hard, but I wouldn't call it easy either. I would have had a hard time going another 5 miles at that pace. It's also just a guess -- I don't know how far I ran or at what speed. I know that I ran 5 miles the previous day about 1.5 minutes slower. I think I was going a little slower in this run, hence I put my time as 7:10.

Nothing beats racquetball. If you are ever in Logan Ut find me and I will teach you a thing or two about racquetball. Last winter I played r-ball twice a week for 2-3 hours and I know it helps you stay in shape. I find it a great cross-training as it helps build the muscles to run sideways. Keep it up

Bryan,

About the Wahsatch Steeplechase. It is a 17.5 mile trail run that involves extreme inclines and declines. At the top you have to climb over and around boulders. There are thick weeds that you have to fight through in some places (you can't even see the trail in some spots). It's the most difficult race I've ever done. I didn't stay long enough to hear the final results, but I was told that they give awards for the most blood shed. It's something worth trying once or twice. See the following link: http://www.wahsatchsteeplechase.com/

Good work, was this on the track? Maybe a little more warm-up before diving into the speedy mile might help get the body temperature up and the blood flowing a bit more, especially if you did it in the morning.

Very close. It looks like your goal will soon be accomplished. Don't hurt yourself. Like Chad and Sasha have mentioned, it's important to warm up. I'd jog a minimum of 1/2 miles before and a couple miles after (time allowing). It would probably only help your time.

I got on a treadmill the other day and got up to 12 miles per hour for one quarter (5 min pace) and it was killing me. It used to be very easy back in high school. I could maintain it for a few miles back then; not now! Age and weight gain can really change one's realities. I'd like to get me speed back in order though. Your fighting to accomplish this speed goal motivates me to want to work harder for greater speed.

Bryan - in the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established. You need a thorough warm-up before running 5:00 pace. I believe you would have run 4:53 if you had properly warmed up.

Jog 2-3 miles, do 4-8 100 meter strides in 17-18 seconds, then do the mile. And remember to cool down at the end.

Thanks for the good advice. Yes, it looks like I need to warm-up longer. I was planning to jog home, but I was too tired -- I ended up walking the mile home. No, this wasn't ran on a track, but on a street in my neighborhood. This creates a couple of potential problems: 1. I'm not sure exactly what is one mile. I've measured the distance using both my car and my bicycle odometer. The two disagree by about 10 yards, so I've been going by the longer of the two (the car). 2. My mile has a gradual downhill stretch and ends with a gradual uphill stretch. My altitude at the finish may be slightly lower than at the beginning. So my thought has been to run sub-5 both directions. However, I probably just ought to go to the track one of these days. A fellow in my church congregation was an All American runner for the University of Florida and apparently ran a sub 4 minute mile. He's not in that shape now, but he says he can run sub 5 still. Maybe I'll get him to pace me. In any case, my goal was to run a sub-5 minute mile by the end of the year, and I'm almost there. Sasha, when you and I were running back together at BYU, you once paced me on the track to break the 5 minute mile mark. Do you remember that? I ran exactly 5 minutes that day also.

Bryan,

I'm impressed with your consistent strong pace. That pace that you run is pretty close to where you need to be to make it to Boston. Of course, at some point you'll need to increase your mileage a bit. I've always been amazed at your natural ability. I had been running for years our freshman year and you ran for a couple of weeks and held with me with almost no trouble at all.

Do you have access to a fitness center or gym during the day at work? Can you break away for a bit around lunch to put in some miles? Perhaps that is when you are running right now. Are you a professor yet or do you still have some schooling to go? If so, do they work you to death initially until you reach tenure. How does that work?

Anyway, I'll stop blabbing.

I guess to break 3:10 in a marathon we'll have to run about 7 minute miles. So a 5 mile closer to 35 minutes would be minimum race pace (I was off a bit) but you seem to be pretty comfortable running 7:30 miles.

Yes, 7:30 is pretty easy for me as long as I'm only running 5-8 miles. I'll obviously need to pick up my speed and distance eventually. Sasha talks like it's best to work on distance first. He's probably right. Before joining this blog though, I'd kind of had the other approach -- I'll get speed first and then work on distance. I'm still going for speed because I want to break my 5 minute mile. But I've been gradually running a little farther lately also.

Training to run a quick mile, we hardly ever ran more than 5-6 miles in training (high school). We did tons of speed work and good hard 5-6 mile runs. It worked fine.

Sasha's right about marathon running. You typically first build a base and then as you approach race time you start to incorporate hills and other challeges. Eventually, you do a period of speedwork but not until after your endurance is very high. Of course, that was just one opinion that I read about.

Bryan,

You don't want to go too fast all the time. Slow is good for building an endurance base, at least that is what I've been told. I think it works.

I think you're right about the track. They're typically certified for that kind of thing. Also the are completely flat and you get an even mix of wind resistance.

Good work! Distance is very important for building endurance. Keep it up.

I just hope I can keep up with you.

I read in runners world once that ultimate frisbee is one of the best games to play as a substitute for a run.

It's amazing how quickly we age. Isn't it?

Yes. 5 years ago I would have never gotten sore playing ultimate. I'm not about to give in to old age just yet though.

You've got 7:30 pace down. It won't take much for you speed up a bit at St. George to break 3:10:59. Perhaps in another 12 months you'll be ready for a PR sub-2:50. You never know!

Wouldn't that be awesome. It's a little depressing though to think that I used to be able to run 45 seconds faster per mile for 18 more miles than this run.

Bryan:

Your sustained daily mileage in the last few months was around 3 miles or so, or probably less. With that background, 8.5 miles is quite a bit of a stress on your body. It would make it very difficult to run a fast mile the day after.

I recommend sticking to 6 miles of 8:00 pace a day for two months to build aerobic fitness with no mile time trials. In a year of consistent training, you'll be able to break 5:00 three times in a row.

You only need to be able to run a 5:50 mile all out to go sub-3 in a marathon if you have proper endurance base. But if you don't, a sub-4:00 mile will not save you. You should start worrying about not being able to break 5:00 on the mile when your marathon PR gets up to 2:35-2:40 range.

For a speed time trial, I recommend running 100 meters after a thorough warmup (without one the risk of injury is very high, and you will not run as fast). It is not as stressful on your body as running the whole mile, and it gives you a better idea of your speed.

If you want to run a fast mile for its own sake, spend some time building a solid aerobic base, and then sharpen your speed with workouts like 8x400 in 70 seconds with 400 jog recovery.

Thanks for the advice Sasha. And I guess I should work a little more on my base. 6 miles a day at 8 minute pace seems very easy though -- not really pushing myself. I guess it would strenghten my legs a little. I have always thought of there being two parts to running: cardiovascular and leg strength. Running 8 minute miles does not seem like it will help cardiovascular but rather just leg strength. But I guess I need to develop both. So your strategy is to develop leg strength first? I will give it a try. I do not like running fast miles anyway.

You'll be fine. Build an aerobic base first, and the speed will come easier and better than before.

Bryan - no pain, no injuries, more potential for pain later. If there is no pain after three weeks, make it 8 miles. No set rule about 8:00 pace. It was just my rough guess based on the observations of your recent training.

If it feels ridiculously easy start to finish for days, increase it. However, if you are tired the next day and feel tempted to cut the mileage, you probably went too fast the day before.

If you are worried about the loss of speed - throw in 5 accelerations in the middle of the easy run each about 15-20 seconds long at about 1 mile race pac

You've really increased your mileage this week, just shy of 30 miles! Where do find ultimate frisby games? That's my kind of workout.

Hey, I ran 32 miles the previous week. I wouldn't be surprised if they have city league ultimate somewhere in Salt Lake or Provo. It's tons of fun, but it takes a bit of time away from family unless you're wife is interested in it also (my wife loves it as much as I do).

Did you give Theron a hard time about not signing up for the website?

Not too hard of a time. He has a kind of crazy schedule. It's common for him to work 80 hour weeks as he is going through his residency. We talked about it though. They're both interested in running next year's St. George -- they just aren't sure how feasible it is.

If they just can't do it this year, perhaps they could volunteer.

Very good running!

Good work this week. Keep it up. On Saturdays, still make sure to run some - 6 miles would be ideal.

Slow is good.

Good work. You should start seeing some results in about three weeks or so.

Bryan,

My wife says the same thing. I typically run very early in the morning on Saturday because I don't want my running to become too much of a burden for my family and especially to my already overburdened wife.

I love mixing in a fast mile or two every once in a while. I don't know if it's a great idea but it's by far the most fun part of the run.

Having the ability to get carried away is a good sign.

Bryan,

Come St. George Marathon time, you should arrange to have to be somewhere about 2 hours and 50 minutes after the start. That way you'll be sure to run a PR. You wouldn't want to be late!

That's a really strong pace for 6 miles. I'm impressed. Of course, according to Sasha's strict prescription, you should be holding back a little more than that but sometimes running slow can just drive someone nuts or make you late.

7:11 pace is fine if it comes naturally.

I've actually had an experience when I had to be at the airport soon enough after a marathon to make things rough. I did hit the wall, all the way kept thinking about making the flight, finsihed in 2:37, and 3:02 after the start of the race was dressed up and driving the car to the airport. Boston Qualifier by 8 minutes!

As a bonus, I did not fall asleep driving, and made my flight.

That's a good strategy Zac. And it looks like it worked for you Sasha. Maybe we should have a goal to be showered, dressed, and at a church building to listen to the first session of General Conference after St. George (as it seems like they are usually the same weekend). We'd probably be blessed with good times.

7:11 pace is not yet relaxed running for me -- if I measured my HR, I'm sure it would have been higher than my run the previous day -- but it isn't too bad. I plan to go nice and slow tomorrow.

Bryan,

It was probably an omen. You did the right thing.

Oh, I'm not really that superstitious but it's always good to listen to what your body is telling you.

I'll second that! Hurrah for dems!

I'll third that! Hurrah for dems!

Bryan,

You'll have no problem running sub 3 hours. You seem to naturally run about 20-30 seconds faster than me. I probably have a much greater challenge than you. I'm excited to seem how it all turns out.

"see" not "seem"

I've been following your times, and I disagree with you. For example, you ran 7 miles the other day averaging around 7:12 per mile, and it sounded like you weren't pushing yourself too much. I really pushed myself today to get a 20 second faster time than you. You've also been running a lot more miles per week than me. If niether of us get hurt, I'll bet we're around the same speed at next year's marathon.

I miss running in the rain. I always ran my best in the rain (at least that is how I remember it). It doesn't rain enough here and when it does it's typically very cold.

You need to move to Tennessee (or the last place I lived -- Seattle).

I've considered it.

Treadmill running always feels easier for me as well, aside from boredom. Are you using 1% incline? It's supposed to compensate for lack of wind resistance that you would get outside. If you don't, it's definitely easier. But even if you put treadmill at 1%, it still may feel easier (no wind, no hills, etc.)

It can be strangely addictive. Just remember, when running on a treadmill you have zero air/wind resistance because you're not really moving at all. This does make a difference. Also, the topography is non-existant. The machine may very well be properly calibrated.

Of course, the best running is outside but it is definitely nice in the winter cold to have a treadmill handy.

Maria and I must have been writing at about the same time.

Bryan - I think you are ready for two changes in your training. First, the day does not end until you've run at least 7 miles instead of 6. Second, throw in a 2-3 mile tempo at about 6:00-6:10 pace once or twice a week based on how you feel in the middle of your regular run. It would also be good to find a 5 K or a 10 K race on a certified course to measure your fitness.

OK. Thanks for the advice Sasha. I'll plan on it, starting Monday.

Bryan,

I'm excited to see how you do with Sasha's recommendation. I know that I would struggle with the tempo runs that he is suggesting. You're probably comfortable with a 20-30 seconds per mile faster pace than me so it probably makes sense. It won't be long and you'll be back in 2:55 marathon shape.

Hope you're right.

Bryan,

You're amazing. I ran one mile today at about the same pace as your first and that was enough for me. Perhaps we should try to do this same type of work out together a couple times each week so that we can encourage each other. I'm struggling to hold that pace but I think it's mostly in my head and not my feet because I'm typically pretty comforable at the 6:00 pace. I need to keep working at it.

I'm very impressed with your run!

Thanks Zac. Yes, I like your idea. My only hesitation is that I'm planning to actually run a little longer run on Saturday, which means my mileage will be somewhere around 45 for the week -- which is about 10 miles farther than it's been any other week. I've heard it's not good to try and increase speed and distance at the same time. Because of this, my plan was to run the two miles at 6:00 pace once this week and once (or maybe twice) next week. What if we plan to do the fast two miles next Tuesday? Another idea would be sometime later this week, say Thursday, we could try and run 7 miles averaging a sub 7:00 minute pace?

You're probably right. Maybe we should just wait until next week or the week after before pushing it too much, given the increased mileage. I didn't see this response until today so I actually tried a fast run yesterday. I was surprised that I actually do have a little speed in my legs.

If I were you I would give it a week or two at the higher mileage and then start with one speed work run per week for a couple of weeks and then build up to two. But I would also do something more like what you said above, where one of those runs would be a faster, long run - "7 miles averaging a sub 7:00 minute pace".

Of course, the honest truth is that I have no idea what I'm talking about. One thing I do know is that more speedwork will subject you to more injury risk, so we need to be careful. Of course, more speed work is so much more fun than the long slow stuff.

Great run!

I know all about the slow and cold. We're you surprise by how much slower you were going running in the cold. My cold runs have mostly all been similar (almost exactly) to your pace. I think we're running very close to the same level, which is good since I'd like to be able to keep up with you come St. George.

Have you talked to the other guys? Are they running at all? Talk to you later.

I meant "were" not "we're".

I know all about the slow and cold. We're you surprise by how much slower you were going running in the cold. My cold runs have mostly all been similar (almost exactly) to your pace. I think we're running very close to the same level, which is good since I'd like to be able to keep up with you come St. George.

Have you talked to the other guys? Are they running at all? Talk to you later.

I think more than the cold, it was just that yesterday's run wore me out a lot. Yes, it'd be great if we're at the same pace for St George. I should re-adjust my goal for St George. With all the training we've been doing I'd like to break my PR -- get below 2:55, or ideally below 2:50 -- although maybe that is a little over-optimistic.

I haven't talked to anyone else. I kind of doubt any of them are regularly running -- although maybe Joel is because of his triathalon training.

You maintain a really strong pace. I'm still averaging closer to 8:00 pace. I'm impressed!

You are very consistantly strong.

Excellent practices holding it! Great for making it through the last 5 miles of a marathon. I remember you had to make a pit stop the first time we ran St. George that slowed you up a bit. Next time you need to go, try running an extra 10 miles just to see if you can do it.

Yes, this is the real challenge of running!

Forgot to mention that my final time was 19:08.

Great race! I'm sure that the uphill on mile 3 was tough. It's hard to judge race time because each race is so different. I would assume that it must have been a pretty good race since about 190+ people couldn't even see you finish, you were so far ahead.

Young kids can be hard to compete with in a 5k. If they are cross-country runners, they do this distance all of the time and do tons of speedwork. Also, their younger bodies can handle much faster downhill pounding than most of us slightly older folks.

Of course, in time, you'll be beating them anyway. Good job!

19:08 is a good start. If I remember correctly, your fastest 5 K on a trusted course without extreme elevation drop in the past has been somewhere around 18:00. At one point you ran DesNews 10 K in 35:00, which is equivalent to about 17:30 on a non-downhill properly measured 5 K course, but back then you had been running 50-60 miles a week consistently for quite a while.

What this a certified course? If not, see if you can borrow a good GPS (Garmin 205/Garmin 305) and measure it out several times (a GPS sometimes does not get it quite right, but is often enough very accurate).

The first time you run a 5 K it is always going to be a bit slow. 5 K is a very painful distance. To run it well, you need to practice 5 K specific pain - 12x400, 6x800, 4x1200, 3x1600 with short rest (1 minute) fast enough to make it hurt and other variations of a cruel and unusual punishment.

I believe that slow is good both physically and psychologically. It's important to not be killing yourself everyday. If you do, you'll end up injured or simply get worn out and stop. Yes, this was a very impressive slow run!

Thanks.

Yeah... REAL slow. Didn't you run a 5 minute mile at some point... :-)

It is actually a good sign that you do not get edgy running at a slow pace. In my experience, this has always coincided with getting into really good shape. I do not quite understand the physiology behind it, but I do know that when I want to run slow while in hard training, it means when I try to run fast it will be really fast.

Way to kick his butt!

I'm very disappointed!

I'm kidding by the way.

Sometimes I go through cycles where one week I'm running great and then the next, I'm just going through the motions. Feeling good everyday would be wonderful but is probably not very realistic. It's just like work, I guess. Sometimes work is fun and interesting and the days pass very quickly and other days...URGH! Part of life, I suppose.

I usually get 400-500 miles on a pair of shoes. Careful with the heel raisers. You may need to stretch the achilles and calves, and heel raisers do the exact opposite: shortens the achilles. Of course I do not know your exact situation, but just a word of caution.

Crowned roads can be a problem. If possible, try to mix up your running surfaces to give your body variety and reduce repetition injuries: roads, sidewalks, treadmills, trails, grass, etc.

I generally get no more than 400 miles on my shoes. Even on the most cushioned ones. I'm pretty hard on shoes, and by 350 miles, the outside of the heel and certain spots on the forefoot are pretty worn down. One time I got a little achilles problem when my shoes had 370 miles on them. I backed off, changed the shoes and didn't have the problem any more. Yes, it can be expensive if you run high mileage, but it sure beats taking time off due to injury. It also helps to take 2 pairs and alternate them - it helps them "rebound" and they may last longer.

I agree with Paul about crowned roads. If you can't avoid them, try to switch sides or change direction to create more even load on your feet.

Crowned roads have given me trouble in the past. It's a little more dangerous, but you could try running on the other side of the road to mix it up. I totally agree with the mixing it up idea. Every surface has pluses and minuses and its good to try them all. I wish the trails weren't so muddy this time of the year (or snowy).

I traditionally run way too many miles in my shoes. My old high school coach is a very consistent 70 mile per week runner. He hasn't missed a day in about 25+/- years. Anyway, he would always get free test shoes from Nike (they liked his consistancy) and if I remember right, he would typically put about 500 - 550 miles on the shoes before he would mail them back to be tested.

You could also be running too fast. You haven't been seriously running for very long and you've been doing some pretty quick runs. If your achilles hurts, I would do some lazy, slow type runs for a week or so and give it a chance to heal.

My shoes have about 418 miles on them and I swear I just got them. I've barely eaven broken them in. I guess, after 500 miles or so you probably should look at your shoes and if they're ok than try a hundred or two more. I don't know.

Looking at a few sites on the web, I think I should take it easy for a few days. I'll start running again (if it feels better) on Jan 1. I need to make a conscientious effort to stretch better. I need to try some strengthening exercises (once it is better). This has probably happened because 1) I've been putting in a lot of miles (for me) lately, 2) there are a lot of hills around where I live, 3) I pronate, which appears to be a risk factor, 4) after my 5k a few weeks ago my calves were really stiff and I didn't do as well stretching and taking it easy.

Bryan, the exercises described in this article helped me greatly this year, especially the eccentric loading of achilles. There are a lot of other useful articles on that site related to achilles injuries, just browse through. Hope it clears up soon!

Thanks very much Maria. I quickly looked over the article and it appears very useful. I'll read it more closely tomorrow.